CAMRA Vista Social Club
When I lived in London I was employed by a large West London brewery which is situated on the Thames. When I first started working there, the operations side of the business produced both lager and ale. When I left to move back to Australia the brewery only produced lager, but lots of it. Sadly the brewery will soon no longer produce any beer at all, but that's another story. There was a joke around the office which referred to the CAMRA Vista Social Club. It was a jovial term for those obsessed/hung up on the revitalisation of ale.
It was suggested and perceived amongst the industry that CAMRA were akin to aging musicians the Buena Vista Social Club (BVSC). The joke was that the BVSC were aging musicians who were strong in numbers but not strong in getting a message across. They never go their act together, played and supported shit music and were more or less just a fringe group who hangout together playing music that the majority of the population just ignored. When the people/market wanted rock, pop and dance - BVSC supplied Cuban Classical.
I guess this pretty much sums up CAMRA. They are basically an antiquated group/elitist social club of fringe beer drinkers who are 100,000 members strong but still have not put a message across. They insist that we drink 'Ale' when the market is screaming out for golden lagers.
While I am going to sit on the fence whether CAMRA are good or bad, have a point or lost their way - whatever. I see why the majority industry use this cheeky little nickname. I really don't care too much, but find it highly amusing.
It was suggested and perceived amongst the industry that CAMRA were akin to aging musicians the Buena Vista Social Club (BVSC). The joke was that the BVSC were aging musicians who were strong in numbers but not strong in getting a message across. They never go their act together, played and supported shit music and were more or less just a fringe group who hangout together playing music that the majority of the population just ignored. When the people/market wanted rock, pop and dance - BVSC supplied Cuban Classical.
I guess this pretty much sums up CAMRA. They are basically an antiquated group/elitist social club of fringe beer drinkers who are 100,000 members strong but still have not put a message across. They insist that we drink 'Ale' when the market is screaming out for golden lagers.
While I am going to sit on the fence whether CAMRA are good or bad, have a point or lost their way - whatever. I see why the majority industry use this cheeky little nickname. I really don't care too much, but find it highly amusing.
Labels: Beer
posted by Tim at
Monday, December 21, 2009
8 Comments:
What an enormous load of old toss, really funny though & completely missing the point.
Firstly, I'm both a long-term CAMRA member & over the past 13 or so years I've worked in breweries of many sizes (from nano to regional) & have had friends and colleagues who've worked in the nationals/internationals and I can honestly say I've never heard this so-called nickname.
I think the analogy of CAMRA & BVSC is actually quite pertinent though, but the idea that either of them are unsuccessful is the laughable bit.
Yes, BVSC took several decades to achieve success again, but boy did they make some real noise when they came back - awards, solo careers, world tours, massive album sales, collaborations with world stars, critical acclaim, etc, etc.
As to CAMRA's success - world's largest consumer organisation, preserving an almost-lost brewing tradition, spawning a craft-brewing revolution in UK & arguably elsewhere including USA (many US micros brew in UK styles, styles that it could be argued CAMRA helped to keep alive long enough for them to inspire beer writers & a generation of brewers).
Has the writer looked at the figures? - Yes more lager is sold in UK than ale, and considerably more lager than cask ale, but which market sectors are growing? (cask ale & premium bottled beers) And which are getting media coverage (quality, craft-brewed and distinctive flavours - not mass-brew lager).
see - http://www.caskreport.co.uk/
The world has turned, and maybe CAMRA has to find a newly defined role, as it has achieved much of what it set out to do - good craft-brewed ale is alive and well, despite dumb articles like this.
Old toss? Mate this is my blog post so I fail to see how I missed the point. I was recalling something that I thought was funny when I worked for a London based brewing co.
As a long term CAMRA member you fail to objectify the situation. I have never worked for a nano or regional brewery, only multinationals. I have never worked in operations, only marketing and business development. I take it you have worked exclusively in the ale world so it's no surprise that you have not heard of the CAMRA Vista Social Club. Your on the other side of the fence, but I will conceed that I am not sure if the nickname was specific to the site I worked in or is applied industry wide.
I think you are drawing a long bow with your claims that craft brewing in the US is a direct result of CAMRA's campaigning, or even craft brewing in the UK. From reading several BrewDog press releases they seem to view CAMRA with severe contempt.
I really think you have missed my point. I have no beef with CAMRA. A well kept pint of ale is a beautiful thing. However, its easier to get a mediocre offering via that serving method than a well kept one. I for one would not want to market a product that's brand can be trashed so easily at the point of sale.
The nickname holds true, walk down the street and ask people if they have heard of the BVSC. Not many will acknowledge. Maybe 5% if you are lucky. Now do the same and see if they drink ale. I bet its about the same 5%. Hence CAMRA is more of a social club than an actively campaigning consumer group.
I fail to see how that makes this post dumb? Good craft brewed beer has nothing to do with CAMRA.
Proper Real Keg cannot be trashed so easily at the point of sale. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, bigsack!
"I take it you have worked exclusively in the ale world so it's no surprise that you have not heard of the CAMRA Vista Social Club"
Try again - as I said, I've had colleagues who worked at big lager breweries (making Kronrnbourg, Fosters & that yummy stuff) but also I've brewed about a dozen different lager brands in 4 different companies in SE & NW UK.
I specifically didn't say craft brewing in USA was a direct result of CAMRA, I said that it was indirect! But in some cases, maybe it was more closely related than that.
If memory serves, several key US craft-brewing pioneers such as Fritz Maytag visited the UK to study & drink some of the breweries & beers that CAMRA helped to preserve (IPA, Porter, Bitter, Mild, etc, etc).
I'm not sure what you mean by "its easier to get a mediocre offering via " - no-one said it was easy to look after, but it's worth the effort, and when it's at its best, it's world class.
(I don't tend to drink in pubs that don't know how to look after cask beer, so I rarely have to send one back).
BrewDog may well be contemptuous of CAMRA (though I'd say they save their real vitriol is for boring beer, be it ersatz lager or dull copper bitter) but it doesn't seem to stop them selling a fair bit of beer in cask form.
Incidentally, the US craft-brewing movement is slowly starting to produce cask itself now, seeing it as one of the pinnacles of the brewer's arts, usually sold as a specialist product, in brewpubs, or in a few carefully chosen bars, but it's growing fast.
About cask beer's brand vulnerability, yes it's an issue, and one that's not been fully resolved, but it can be marketed as one of its selling points - it's fresh, tasty, more natural & has limited shelf life - all things which could be said about fresh milk, juice, fresh fruit & veg, but many would agree they're all worth the effort & in taste enjoyment, I'd rather a fresh carrot than a tin of beans; fresh milk over UHT & a cool decent pint of cask over an extra-cold, filtered, pasteurised, never-been-near-a-hop mass-brew lager.
Often cask is local, so involves lower food miles, helps support the local economy, employs more people, & to me, when it's well-kept, simply tastes better than most of what else is on offer in UK pubs.
You seem to judge CAMRA & Buena Vista SC as being unsuccessful because only 5% of the population might have heard of them, but you can judge success in a million ways - if I was in my 80s, touring the world, singing & playing the music I love with my friends, winning awards, selling over 5 million records, critical acclaim, being in an Oscar-nominated film - I'd probably say life was pretty sweet.
Ditto CAMRA - most populous consumer group in the world, the UK now with more craft breweries per capita than any other in the world, beer styles galore, loads of good pubs still succeeding (despite pub closures, many good cask pubs seem to thrive) - not too shabby.
Is CAMRA perfect? No, but I've yet to speak to anyone from the quality end of the brewing business (micro to super-regional) who wouldn't give them credit for helping the industry.
"Good craft brewed beer has nothing to do with CAMRA"? If only I could find that perfect Jim Royle quote . . .
You seem to think that I have a prioblem with CAMRA. If what you say is true, then fine. I don't have to justify anything to hold my opinion. You on the other hand are writing essays full of specualtive events that may or may not have happened. Beer Geeks fuel innovation in brewing, not CAMRA
Three words: Proper Real Keg
And beer geeks & CAMRA are mutually exclusive groups of course . . . ?
Pretty much so.
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