An 'Outsiders' view to CAMRA and the Good Beer Guide
I have been on the verge of joining CAMRA for some time, but I have finally decided that I'm not going to bother. While CAMRA has brought real ale back from the depth of despair, it seems that their mission is complete and now they campaign for marginal issues which basically alienate the industry that supports the products that they are so passionate about; The Pubs. For instance, the 'Take it to the top' petition is a trivial campaign that insinuates that one in four pub landlords are deliberately ripping off drinkers. The linked article states that the statistics were generated by a CAMRA survey, hardly what I would call an independent study. Campaigns such as this clearly end up alienating pub landlords who in turn may think twice before deciding to stock real ale. The reality of the situation is that real ale costs more to keep, prepare and serve than lager or nitrokegged bitter and also has a smaller profit margin. Obviously most landlords are passionate about real ale, otherwise from a purely economic and business viewpoint combined with an active campaign branding them cheats, why would they bother?Secondly the reserved use of the term 'beer' by CAMRA. This is something that has been a minor annoyance to me over the last few days. The blogosphere is currently awash with reports about how the CAMRA publication 'The Good Beer Guide' is produced. I find this process fascinating and appreciate that fellow bloggers such as Tandleman and Maeib have documented the process and how it works with their local CAMRA branches. My issues here is in regards to a discussion raised by Boak and Bailey. The post itself is civil and informative and reflects my own fascination with the process, but when I questioned the inclusion of real ale only in the 'Good Beer Guide' it opened up the true closed minded, elitist nature of the CAMRA commenter's on that particular post.
The official website of The Good Beer Guide states "The best place to find good pubs and good beer" where I interpret beer to mean both ale and lager. I understand that CAMRA stands for campaign for real ale, and that is the interest of the consumer group but surely the word 'beer' implies both ale and lager. This is pure ignorance on the part of CAMRA and in reality the guide should be called the 'Good Ale Guide'. Another issue is the indecision of what the guide actually is. Is it a guide to real ale, or a guide to pubs? Different commenter's on the post in question seem confused. I had a skim through at my local WHS at lunch and basically it features pubs and mentions the real ales served. I see that The Jerusalem Tavern who stock the amazing Moravka lager is listed, but there is no mention of the British produced lager in the guide.
Back over at Boak and Bailey, one commenter Tyson makes the following point;
"CAMRA is an organisation dedicated to promoting real ale. The GBG is a by product of that-it was started and its purpose still is to help find real ale pubs. It is not close minded for an organisation to fulfill its remit-it is normal. The Catholic Church does not print a directory of Anglican churches, nor does the AA print the Good Train Guide"
Interesting enough, but neither The Catholic Church or AA publish a guide which is published under a blanket title such as 'Guide to Christianity' or 'Definitive transport in the UK', which is akin to the the CAMRA title 'Good Beer Guide'.
Finally Tandleman pipes up with;
"As Tyson says it is interesting to hear an outside view, albeit one that seems to miss the point".
Sadly it seems that the CAMRA folk commentating have missed the point. I understand the issue fully, but as an 'outsider' the issue is obviously too complicated for me. Really sometimes I feel like I am shouting at people with hands over their ears!.
I could keep on ranting, but I really couldn't be bothered. I'll speak with my wallet and not join CAMRA. Besides the benefit of not being stereotyped as a plastic bag carrying, bearded freak, I'd rather not let my money go towards pointless campaigns like 'Take it to the top', which inadvertently accuses the industry I like blogging about. I think I'll stick with CAMEL.

16 Comments:
I read Tandleman's comment as referring to B&B as presenting the outside view which missed the point.
Anyway, as a fellow outsider I'm very surprised you object to CAMRA's co-opting the word "beer" in the title of their book, yet don't bat an eyelid at their branding of ale as either "real" or, presumably, "unreal".
I drink unreal ale almost exclusively, and as a result I tend not to take CAMARA's use of any terminology seriously.
Christ, I'm impressed doc! You grew a giant pair with this post. It's official! Welcome to the dark side!
I've had so many battles with various CAMRA members, it's truly comedic. At least the Christians had a reformation, something CAMRA is incapable of.
Well done Tim. I like the bit "they campaign for marginal issues which basically alienate the industry"
That is the way I have felt for ages. The GBG never has a comment like "Interesting range of bottled beers" or "Range of continental draft beers". It's not "real ale" so doesn't count. Yes, a pub has to serve good real ale first, but then look at the rest as well.
I think real ale is important, Or cask beer, or whatever you want to call it, but there are other fantastic beers that are not "real".
Most of all, what bothers me is that there are people like you, and Wurst, and Jeff P who care about beer but are sceptical about CAMRA. There is something wrong with that, and I don't think it's you guys.
Firstly I want to state that I don't dislike CAMRA. The UK beer map would be pretty bleak without their campaigning. But I had something on my chest which I am glad I got out.
@Beernut: Maybe Tandleman was refering to B&B missing the point, but I took it as directed at me. I don't really have an opinion on ale being real or unreal. The 'R' in CAMRA actually started as revitalisation so I am not sure about teh term real. Maybe thats the topic of a future post.
@Sausage: I don't battle with CAMRA, just state opinion. i happen to work with a few activist types and it's about time I lit a fire under their backside!
@Dave: I guess I like all kinds of beer and don't want to limit myself to one consumer groups viewpoint. It's strange that there is a Good Beer Guide to Belgium, but nothing that describes the good Belgian beer found in the UK.
Dave
You are way off the mark on this one-the GBG is full of descriptions such as you mention. I should know-in my CAMRA days I wrote a fair few! Often the Landlord puts down what he wants to say about his pub, so naturally there will be mention of draught and bottled foreign beers.
I open the current GBG at p342 and get "a superlative range of Belgium beers, with several on draught. Czech and German beers also feature." Another dip gives us "13 fonts for Belgium, German and other continental beers." When a pub offers the choice, the guide does make a point of mentioning it. I can't see what all the fuss is about.
OK Tyson, fair cop.
The problem is, I've got a post half authored on the subject, but not posted because I'm not happy with it. I've been brewing all day and the brewery needs cleaned up and I've got a CAMRA meeting to go to....
I just think it's unwise to not listen to these views. They are quite widely held by people.
One big problem I have with CAMRA is its aimlessness.
"Campaigns" need aims: how else do they know that their "campaigning" is useful?
I've asked many Camra members over the years what their beloved organisation aims to achieve - not one has been able to give me an answer.
I'm a member because I want to get the magazine and a few quid off at beer festivals, but I don't follow their doctrines. Their image is dated and it's self-fulfilling - I took my girlfriend to a CAMRA beer festival once and she couldn't handle all the old, drunk, smelly men ogling her.
I like ale but don't care if it's real or not. And I think the 'Take it to the Top' is a bit silly.
It's interesting to compare the GBG to the GBG West Coast USA, which is completely different, modern, fun and interesting. The British GBG is a bore, albeit a fairly useful one at times!
Bottom line, they have a horrible reputation. The last time I was in England, I had a run in with several of them at The Bricklayers Arms, Putney. I had brought 22 ounce bottles of local stuff to drink with Jeff Bell, who couldn't make it because he was at a beer writers convention. Oh well, I've since made up with Bell. As the story goes, a huge group of CAMRA members came to the pub from the GBBF. I spoke to one of them and mentioned I brought some beer from AleSmith, Stone, and Port Brewing and was wondering if he and his mates would like to do a tasting.
He said yes, but that wasn't the case. They refused to drink any of it, as they sat around a table drinking Tim Taylors Dark Mild. So there I am looking like an ape in a thunderstorm talking to these buffons about beer, and they won't drink any of it! Then my lady mentions she doesn't mind drinking Stella once in a while. This starts one of the idiots ranting about how lager is shit, blah, blah, blah. Now I don't think it's necessary for me to mention that I'm from a warm climate, or that it's ok to drink Belgian produced Stella. It's just a basic, continental lager. I don't need to explain myself to these idiots, or anyone why I drink certain beers. So if anyone cares, I've dealt with these clowns for over 20 years. They have a reputation for a reason. I now avoid them at all cost.
These CAMRA related sentiments seem to run deep and when you consider that CAMRA only has 100000 members compared to the possible 25+ million cheap lager drinkers in the UK and you realise that they are a vocal minority. As it's more of a social club these days it's a shame that an element of snobbery has developed.
In warm climates such as parts of the US and Australia, cask ale is just not a feasable option - cellar temp would be 30 plus degrees.
Also Czech and German lagers are great in summer and certainly more interesting than the majority of summer ales that are forced upon pubs during the warmer UK months.
It's time to open your minds CAMRA. Ale is popular again and available in most pubs as a much better product than it was pre-CAMRA. Expand your remit and move on. Be greatful that there is no premium market for ales as there is in other countries such as Australia where Little Creatures or Coopers sells for twice as much as mega lagers.
Jeff
Somewhat conveniently, it seems you've never asked the right people.
This idea that "CAMRA has brought real ale back from the depth of despair" needs treating a large pinch of salt. It comes from top secret book of pro-CAMRA brainwashing technique that is used at underground "branch meetings" up and down the country.
CAMRA seem to turning into an organisation like the RAC or Saga with their "members benefits". They are now asking whether health insurance is of interest to members. Anything to avoid stick to the subject of real ale it seems!
You know there is so much to respond to here that it is worthy of a full post. which I'll do on my blog asap.
I will say this. A lot of people in CAMRA agree that their IS a fair bit of aimlessness and most of us think the full pint campaign is risible, but I feel rather less sure about daft anecdotes being taken as representative.
Tim, while what you say is not at all untrue in lots of ways, it is in others. Tyson has already demolished the "no mention of lager in the GBG" claim for instance.
Oh and Sausage, next time you come to the UK give me a call. A) I'll turn up and B) I'll scoff your beer (or ale or lager!)
Tandleman, I eagerly await your post. It seems that from the comments here, I am not alone in my thinking and maybe I have just been upfront about these issues as they reflected my decision not to join CAMRA.
I'll also stand corrected about the lager. There is some mention, just not where I would have expected it.
Not everyone in CAMRA is so stuck up on just real ale:
http://www.whatpub.org/Guide/000000/Pub000014.htm
The Vale was one of the first outlets for Moravka brewed over the hills outside Buxton.
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